I know that this is something that has been brought up before, but I don't see a specific topic that takes Chapter 4 into account. Right now we have the Weird Route (Chapter 4) article, and it takes its name because of the internal name of the Chapter 2 one. Plus there is the Sword Route article which is also takes its name from its internal name.
We know that the most "official" name of the route in Chapter 2 is "Weird Route" thanks to internal stuff and because one of the developers calls it like that. "Snowgrave Route" is just a fan name, which was chosen because the community at large liked it more at the time, but I don't think that it should hold any solid value now. We refer to the alternate routes in Chapter 3 and 4 with their official names, so the best thing is that we do the same with Chapter 2.
Also we see in Chapter 4 that the Snowgrave spell wasn't really the most impactful thing of the route in Chapter 2, it was more the Thorn Ring or just Kris being weird in general. If anything the "Thorn Ring Route" would be more fitting as a name, but the semi official "Weird Route" name is already there to be taken.
The only downside that I would see by doing this is that we would have two different articles named "Weird Route", the Chapter 2 and 4 ones, but I don't think that this would be really negative taking into account that indeed they are two parts of the same route, so it does makes sense for them to share the name. We already have the Chapter 4 one with the identifier, so I don't see any real damage in doing the same to the Chapter 2 one.
Me too. It's way less confusing, and it will make sure people know that the weird route in Chapter 2 and Chapter 4 are connected, whereas the Sword Route is not.
It's strange because the Sword Route is something that you are "expected" to do, with Seam recommending you to do it as a prequisite to get the Shadow Crystal. Whereas the Weird Routes across the two surrounding chapters are instead something that you are "not expected" to do, with you derailing the narrative somewhat.
But getting back on topic, how do moves work in this wiki? Should we wait until some admin approves this notion too for them to move the page, or should some sort of vote be made, or how?
That’s why i think the narrative of the game will be “what will you do to make your choices matter?”
Your first playthrough, you might get the normal ending, but you find out from seam about the shadow crystals, and you start collecting those to change your ending
Then you do Sword Route and are shown another method to change your ending
But will you do it?
Will you manipulate your friend and kill everyone just to get something new?
I agree with naming the route "Weird" instead of "Snowgrave" consistently, but as I'm currently catching up with a lot of things, as is the rest of administration, and there's still a lot of other content to add, I would prefer if we organize a proper vote on this a little bit later and until then leave the articles as they are. Perhaps next week?
Ah couldn't the page just be moved and some people change its name around while the admins catches up with their other things? Unless having a proper vote is the preferred move by the staff.
I wouldn't really mind to change text and hyperlinks around the wiki myself to acomodate for the name change if it were to be done soon.
Ah well that's perfect, thanks! So the vote would be done some day in the following week? The vote would be done by admins or how? And it would be done in a community post like this one?
Yes, yes, and yes. I'll start a new thread after we collect all the options and add it to the sitenotice for visibility. Just, next week because right now we're kind of swamped with work, sorry.
To add a little more context here, this was discussed in the Discord on launch day. The folks present opted to keep it split into two pages primarily because the article would otherwise get unbearably long (especially considering future chapters). We knew at the time that this could easily be reversed and merged back into one page later down the line, if need be, and that that should be put to a vote when the time's right. We'll figure it all out together!
Yeah, now that SnowGrave is no longer the focus of the route, its fine to call it Weird Route for the other chapters. But I'm still not sure about Chapter 2... i mean its all about freezing.
If people really like the Snowgrave Route name, we could keep that page named as the Snowgrave Route, and mention in the page that the Snowgrave Route is the part of the Weird Route that takes place in Chapter 2, and we make up a name for Chapter 4's, and say that that's the part of the Weird Route that takes place in Chapter 4. Then we have a Weird Route page that links to both. Something like this:
Weird Route
The Weird Route is an alternate storyline in Deltarune... etc
It currently has 2 sections:
The Snowgrave Route in Chapter 2
The [insert name here] Route in Chapter 4
It's a less elegant solution, but it could be good if people really don't want to get rid of the Snowgrave Route name.
Yeah but that is precisely what I want to avoid. I don't think than an encyclopedia should use a fan name above an official one, when an official name is clearly there.
Even if the Chapter 2 part is about freezing and so on, why would we purposefully ignore an official name just because?
I guess is fine if people want to use a fan name in fan discussions, but ideally an encyclopedia should document the information as official as possible, methinks.
I know it widely as the Snowgrave Route, so it's a bit difficult for me to give my honest opinion. Also, isnt Flowey X called Photoshop Flowey by fans?
And the wiki decided to call it Photoshop Flowey.
This has happened before.
But im sure that you guys have a different opinion.
Yes, I agree with you. I think it should just be called the Weird Route. However, we should also respect whatever the community votes for. If they vote for keeping it called the Snowgrave Route, my solution or something similar could be used to make sure people understand that the Snowgrave Route and the Chapter 4 Weird Route are the same route (I don't think anyone wants that Chpater 4 Weird Route to also be called the Snowgrave Route).
Flowey X isn’t quite the same situation. Undertale file names have contradicted canon names before. Undyne the Undying is the canon name of her Murder Route boss fight (It’s the name that shows up on the ACT menu), but the game file is Undyneex. (Or Undynex, I’d have to look at the dataminers again.) Even worse, Moldbygg is moldsmalx, which is not just an alternative name, but flat-out incorrect (Not an alternate form of Moldsmal, but an entirely different monster) Flowey X was never used in official discussion, the official art book just calls it Flowey (Boss). Meanwhile, Fred Woods, someone on the development team, does use the term “Weird Route”.
Undertale file names weren’t really meant for datamining. (Deltarune however is much more designed for datamining, based on observations made by Mollystars in Device Theory. Oh, and the UNUSED strings being the most blatant example.) And there’s now some in-game evidence of “Weird Route” being correct based on Chapter 4.
Photoshop Flowey is named like that because the Undertale credits say at one part:
Photoshop
Flowey Battle Co-design
And people interpreted that as the boss being named "Photoshop Flowey" which is probably wrong given that Omega Flowey is used somewhere else, or maybe the boss should be just named "Flowey".
I saw in the wiki article that there was a community vote too for that page's name like for this one. I wasn't present back then, but at least there is some part in game that the words "Photoshop" and "Flowey" are there back to back. If a vote for that page were to be done now, I would probably vote for Omega Flowey given that developers use that name online, but at least Photoshop Flowey has the argument of being text displayed in that order in-game.
The "Snowgrave Route" name doesn't have that argument to it, and if we were to compare this topic to that of Photoshop/Omega Flowey, then it is actually an argument in favor to the "Weird Route" name. Because not only is that name written as is in the code, but those two words are mentioned next to each other in that order by Susie in Chapter 4. It has an in-game argument to its favor like "Photoshop Flowey", and it also has the argument of being a name used by some developer like "Omega Flowey", so...