Oh okay I assumed he called more people "princess"
Then I guess we should
I don't have a problem with this either way
Okay, but why would you think that distinction really matters? There's a reason why he's comparing Kris (along with the rest of the group) to a princess in the first place, and it's likely for the same reason why he calls Susie and Ralsei princesses.
Okay? I am biased.
Then, respectfully, you should remove yourself from the discussion. You're not coming at this from a place of good faith.
Flowery does call Kris a Princess, actually.
"Thought I heard some princesses in distress." - Flowery is talking to all 3 of the fun gang. He isn't saying they are like princesses or comparing them to princesses. He is calling all three of them princesses, directly.
Also, fluffy boy could be any fluffy boy within the dark world.
It doesn't, we know who it applies to. If a character went "Where is the Fluffy Boy" no one is thinking Rabbick. They're all immediately thinking Ralsei, because that title is used with his literal introduction. It's his very first nickname. It is also used for him more than once. It is reinforced as being a nickname. If you said "the princess isn't here" it could be Susie, it could be Kris, it could be Ralsei, it could be any of the princesses from the minigame, it could be Roulx, it could be bleedin' Star Walker. It's a generic title and it is being used
it's important to them
That's fine, but not part of the Wiki guidelines.
as I've said many times, important to the game.
It doesn't matter how many times you say it, it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't meet the guidelines. The guidelines are needed to keep things consistent. Princess is not a nickname.
Look, I'm saying this from a place of genuine respect and care. The very fact you're getting so heated about this and defensive and trying so many angles to make it fit really makes it clear you are not thinking about this rationally or objectively. This is very clearly a personal thing and being pushed with an intensely heavy bias. That isn't healthy and I don't want to see you get stressed out about it.
But it simply is not an alias. It isn't a name unique to Ralsei and that's really that. We already have a nickname from Flowery (Raly). That's enough.
Literally what they said
several other people in this thread have come at this from the bias of "not wanting ralsei to be a girl" and they are allowed to participate. having opinions doesn't mean you can't discuss, it just means you need to be respectful and productive, which venus has been.
as for the wp:inn thing (sorry id quote but it's harder to on mobile) thats a policy that we use. really thats a policy all wikis should be using, it stops people from getting into fallacies. kris's pronouns are a very, very rare exception to us adhering to encyclopedic standards and can't be brought up as evidence of anything when i doubt we are ever applying those rules to anywhere else ever.
And that is also bad faith and not helpful if that is their only reasoning. I haven't bothered to address that because it falls apart on its own and isn't relevant to the topic at hand. I'm not saying anyone isn't allowed to participate, but when someone is openly saying they are biased and pushing, then that tells me their intention isn't to make the Wiki correct, but it is to get it to simply say what they want it to say. That's not the goal here.
it just means you need to be respectful and productive, which venus has been.
Never claimed they were not respectful and I've been the same in kind. Repeating the same thing over and over again ad nausem, insisting people just aren't reading it and placing more and more emphasis on how one feels is far from productive, however.
The policy is clear. The guidelines are clear. I get the reason behind some of the push for this but the push is biased and is asking for special exception to the rule and the rules are clear. All the other aliases are either unique to the character entirely, reference a trait only they have or are known for, or are how that character specifically knows that character. A name that is used by a character for multiple characters simply does not meet the critera, otherwise everyone would have the alias "Loser" from Lancer (and also from Susie).
We've also avoided in general adding multiple nicknames from the same character (though we've sometimes cited two characters giving the same nickname, like Queen's nickname for Ralsei also being used by Lancer).
The info box has been purged of aliases in the past because it was getting too cluttered and meaningless and the names within the aliases should be snappy, punchy, reflective of the character and their relationship to the one giving it.
For example, "Toothpaste Boy" from Lancer isn't just a funny name for Ralsei but also embodies his relationship with Lancer who can't be bothered to learn his real name and tends to just describe people in weird, physical ways. "Fluffy Boy" is a title literally handed to Ralsei from the very first savepoint and is a clear cut first impression of Ralsei's character.
Princess is something that Flowery calls three different characters and another character more primarily. It doesn't matter how I feel about it. It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It doesn't matter how a pope feels about it. We made a criteria for aliases and Princess does not meet that criteria.
So the two viable options are
A. Do not add Princess to Ralsei's nicknames, per established guidelines and consistency to how they have been enforced
B. Rewrite the guidelines to allow it, and open the floodgates to every single non-name entry the characters are called.
For obvious reasons, I vote A, which seems to be the overwhelming consensus reading through the posts here.
i feel like the conclusion is the opposite. specifically because he calls susie that many times, but ralsei only once, its not a tick in ralseis case. if it was there would be more direct examples.
He refers to the entire group as princesses collectively several times. Again, what makes you think he means that one instance of "Princess" any differently than every other instance?
Especially when you consider the fact his character archetype is inspired by the love stricken arrogant hero characters in Otome games, meaning it's likely to be a verbal tic above all else.
he refers to the group as such twice, and one of those times it's a metaphor/figure of speech.
Again, what makes those instances figures of speech, but the usage of princess in that one scene not?
I'm referring only to "like princesses" here.
This logic doesn't track.
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If it is a verbal tic at all, then it disqualifies it from ever being a nickname, on the nature of it being a tic.
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Remex_Remige did a good job establishing it is not a verbal tic, and I agree with that conclusion in this case.
It is simply a thing he chooses to call every member of the fun gang, with an emphasis on calling Susie it.
The issue I think people are running into is they are confusing (and I have used it interchangably too myself which hasn't helped) nickname and alias (which is an Also Known As)
Alias - used to indicate that a named person is also known or more familiar under another specified name
Ralsei is not "also known as" Princess. He is not recognizable to other people by that name. Meanwhile, Toothpaste Boy is recognizable as an alias (it even shows up in the prophecy), and everyone knows who it refers to.
This isn't about making a comment on Ralsei's gender identity or lack thereof. This is about keeping a consistent standard.
yknow what yeah fair enough
I feel like "Lil Guy" should be added too, as Flowery calls Ralsei "Lil Guy" several times in various important scenes, some of which are on the main route and therefore can't be missed or skipped (ala both the scene where Ralsei says he can be a princess and the scene with the drink vouchers). The other wiki also has "Lil Guy" there; to me, it has similar narrative weight to the singular instance of Ralsei singularly being called a princess.
IIRC he's called "Lil Guy" more than once, right?
What I'm gathering from this thread so far is that there's a majority of editors who feel like it doesn't fit as an alias in that infobox field, and moreover, that there's no current consensus to add it. Let's revert to status quo (NOT listed in the infobox) and await additional discussion/a vote to see if that leads to a consensus for adding it as an alias.
He's called "lil' guy" exactly once (and "lil guy" 0 times), as far as I can tell. There are a couple more uses of "little guy" that refer to various other characters (C. Round, Kawkaw, Ralsei plush, Pippins...). But I don't think this discussion is about that, so let's leave that for another time.
Kris's page includes Sploinky as a nickname, which as far as I can find is only used once by Dad Cat. Given that this is a single usage in a comedic scene and is not indicated to be any kind of nickname Kris is commonly known by, it should also be removed by the same standards that removed Princess from Ralsei's page. If people instead want to keep Sploinky on Kris's page because it is really funny (Which it is), we should be consistent by including Princess on Ralsei's page. It's only fair, especially considering the princess scene has quite a bit more narrative weight than Dad Cat calling people the wrong name for fun.
Done.
Not exactly my preferred result, but at least things are a little more consistent now.