Hi, haven’t edited this wiki yet but I am a contributor to other wikis such as the Super Mario Wiki, under the username DryBonesBandit.
I see that this article is at a conjectural title at the present moment, but shouldn’t it be moved to "Nightmare"? This is derived from file names and would be consistent with other articles using a file name as a naming source.
"Nightmare" could technically refer to the sequence including the boss fight, not the character. It's also a name that's already been used (ICE-E's sidekick in a fun event), and it just isn't a really good name. Most people won't search for "Nightmare" looking for the Shadow Mantle Holder. What pages were you thinking of being entirely from internal names? The first one that I think of is Weird Route but that's been externally confirmed.
"sound of justice" is one, but given the alternative is "???" i think we're good
Your point is valid. "Shadow Mantle Enemy" is also another title that is derived from files, also, and I think it is more likely to be searched for than "Shadow Mantle Holder".
This wiki currently lists most NPCs under their internal names, as well as listing obstacles such as the scissor dancers by it as well.
I agree with this.
The sprites don't even say enemy, but just "Shadow Mantle". I've considered the name "Shadow Mantle (Enemy)", but I feel like most people wouldn't search for that since it's an internal name and the fandom has pretty much ubiquitously decided to call it Mantle Holder or ERAM.
I’m going based on what it says on the wiki. I haven’t claimed it to be derived from the sprite names.
Okay, the game object itself is called that, but I think you could argue that's standard practice to denote that the object is in fact an enemy
Yes, it is standard practice. However, this is also the only name that is official (in that it is directly from the game’s code), hard to debate (unlike Nightmare), and is also likely to be searched; I’d bet that more people would search for Shadow Mantle Enemy than they would Shadow Mantle Holder without prior knowledge on what the wiki referred to it as.
I would also support a move to Shadow Mantle (enemy), due to the file name.
To be honest, I think most people will search "shadow mantle" and let the autocomplete do the work for them. So, whether we go with "holder" or "(enemy)" is really a matter of policy. I wouldn't be opposed either way.
If we're talking about conjectural names, I honestly think Voice is a much more egregious example, because how many people are actually going to know to search that?
I agree with you there. Nobody would know to search for voice.
As for the mantle foe, I personally believe that it should be moved to Shadow Mantle Enemy or Shadow Mantle (Enemy) as it is closer to official than the conjectural name while still being easy to search for without prior knowledge. I don’t care whether it ends up being "…Enemy" or "…(Enemy)".
The name “Shadow Mantle Holder” is more “official” on the basis of, well, the enemy exclaiming that they indeed hold the Shadow Mantle in their dialogue (which is presented to the player, and not internal information).
Frankly, that makes no sense to me. Stating that they hold the Shadow Mantle is not indicative of their name in any way; rather, it indicates what they do. If an NPC named Jim in files said "I’m holding this cup" and is not named elsewhere, would they be the "Cup Holder"?
Saying you hold something does not give any sort of name. The filename is the only actual title given to the creature as of now.
If the intent was for it to be named "Shadow Mantle Holder", wouldn’t "holder" be capitalized? The entire sentence of dialogue seems like it isn’t naming, either.
If the NPC was named “Jim” internally and said no dialogue other than “I’m holding this cup”, then they would be named “Jim” because that is an actual name. But if they were named cup_npc, it would make more sense to name them “Cup Holder". This is the same as the case of Striped Bird being named “Striped Bird” and not “Normal NPC”.
And that is equivalent to what we’re discussing here. Because shadow_mantle_enemy is not indicative of their name - “enemy” is just what every enemy object is named.
I have to disagree here. Seeing as subjects such as Tenna are in the files as "tenna_enemy", why isn’t this article Shadow Mantle (Enemy)? The part before "_enemy" appears to be indicative of the subject’s name in most cases that I have seen so far.
"normalnpc" sounds like an atypical file name to me, considering how the Hometown NPC article does not have "npc" in other file names. There may have been circumstances that caused it to be named that, such as being planned for something else. "shadow_mantle_enemy", on the other hand, is comparable to other names with "_enemy".
There is also Winglade and Winglade (Item), so this proposed move even has something comparable in current names already.
While "shadow_mantle_enemy" for a battle with an animated Shadow Mantle would be standard, I don't believe that's what happens in game. I think the dialogue disproves that, or if not disproves, casts enough doubt. So I conclude that the name is not the standard enemy naming, rather it's a sort of placeholder to avoid giving their real name, and making the easy assumption that the game won't need to have another Shadow Mantle battle later.
Shadow Mantle Holder is an accurate description, still consistent with how the game files only identify them in relation to the Shadow Mantle, and is easy enough for people to find on the wiki.
Question:
Why is this argument going on in two different threads? As in whether or not the person we fight is the Shadow Mantle or just holds it?
This is not the same argument.
I see your point. I am sorry to all for taking time out of all of your days.
Yes it is, as it turned into it about 3 replies before mine.
