So in Pacifist, I guess the souls were returned to their bodies? But what happened in the Neutral run? Did they shatter? Did they ride off into the sunset? They can't still be in the underground.
I think it's implied they flew/wandered off, or that Frisk took them with when they left.
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Imagine Frisk just walks down the mountain, approaches some random old person, and goes "Hey, I found your missing sibling!" before handing over a SOUL lol
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Say if they re-entered the human bodies would the humans just… come back to life or something
Probably not because the body is dead and all that but it would be funny
The souls probably just vanished to some etheral plane or something though. Or maybe they went on to posess new humans elsewhere and reincarnation is a thing. Maybe Frisk’s soul was once Chara’s soul and that’s how we cross the barrier in neutral
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Probably not. The corpses are corpses, they'd need to be healed properly to do that. Robot bodies would probably work though.
And no, Frisk's SOUL isn't Chara's SOUL. Frisk isn't Chara. It's directly pointed out by Alphys that Frisk can't cross the barrier without Asgore's SOUL; They get around this in Neutral because Flowey uses the SOULs to get them through. (That's why he still takes the SOULs in repeat Neutrals, despite knowing they'll rebel)
I’m calling for a SOUL/human distinction just like how it works in Deltarune
Frisk is not Chara, and neither of them are the same as the SOUL that possessed both of them
It's directly pointed out by Alphys that Frisk can't cross the barrier without Asgore's SOUL;
Alphys wouldn’t know Frisk has Chara and Asriel’s combined SOUL
They get around this in Neutral because Flowey uses the SOULs to get them through. (That's why he still takes the SOULs in repeat Neutrals, despite knowing they'll rebel)
How would that even work? Frisk can’t absorb the other human souls because humans can’t absorb human souls.
Hear me out: what if Frisk and the SOULs worked together to shatter the barrier (or at least part of it)
I say this because I don't think Flowey dragged Frisk through, nor did Frisk just stay. Also, Frisk walks through the same doorway they do at the end of True Pacifist, which they'd only be able to see if the barrier was gone.
I’m calling for a SOUL/human distinction just like how it works in Deltarune
There is no distinction between SOUL and human. Kris is being possessed through the player's soul, but that doesn't create a distinction between the soul and human, because it's explicitly not their soul. Even if there was one in Deltarune, Undertale directly proves otherwise, with seven different examples.
Frisk's SOUL being Chara's would literally make them Chara, when they're not.
Alphys wouldn’t know Frisk has Chara and Asriel’s combined SOUL
I'm fairly certain our local SOUL expert should be able to tell if it's not a normal human SOUL. Not to mention, the fact Frisk can't cross the barrier on their own is what forces them to fight Asgore, if they could just walk through the barrier themself, why didn't they?
Also pointing out, Flowey uses the fact Frisk is forced to reset to see their friends again to convince them to load their save to get back into the Underground. Seems to point to it not being Frisk's power that let them cross. He should know, he was there.
How would that even work? Frisk can’t absorb the other human souls because humans can’t absorb human souls.
Frisk didn't absorb them. Flowey used them to pull Frisk through. Flowey still has them when it happens, both in the original Neutral route (the black void scene where Frisk walks past where the barrier should be) and in subsequent Neutral routes.
The Barrier is specifically stated to still be there in the final phone call.
That doorway is just outside the barrier, so they can see it without breaking it because they're already outside.
BUT HOW DID THEY GET THERE? Did they abuse some SAVE/LOAD weirdness to clip through the door like a video game?
How would pushing it through even work?
Don’t you need at least a human soul and a monster soul to cross?
And I don’t think even Frisk knows they have Asriel’s SOUL. I still stand by “human is not the SOUL”
That we have three distinct entities, Frisk, Chara, and the SOUL. Maybe even four if it turns out Chara’s SOUL isn’t Frisk’s SOUL
(I actually reaponded in the other thread defending the idea of the souls not being the humans there too)
Undertale and Deltarune are parallel stories, not the same universe. They likely have differences in how the SOUL relates to the human or monster it's in.
There are three distinct entities, yes, but the soul is not a distinct entity. Frisk's soul is Frisk. Chara's soul is Chara. The player is neither.
As I mentioned, Flowey pretty clearly confirms that crossing the barrier wasn't Frisk's doing. If it was, they could've gone back and seen their friends whenever they wanted, but he specifically points out how they can't, because that wasn't their doing. Frisk can't cross the barrier on their own, and they didn't, they had help that they wouldn't have if they went back there.
Also, the requirement is "At least." Multiple human SOULs, like what Flowey had, would work.
At least in Deltarune, choices come from the soul. In Chapter 4 Weird Route you can literally move the SOUL from the vents onto the textbox to make choices implying the icon for choices being the SOUL is actually literal. As in, it is LITERALLY the SOUL making these selections.
Similar ideas apply to Undertale with moving the box in the Sans fight to press FIGHT.
Though good work on the Flowey idea.
So I suppose there goes that hypothesis of mine with the soul being Chara’s. Okay so there’s four entities
Frisk, our SOUL, Chara, Chara’s SOUL (player entity that isn’t us)
(More on why I believe other humans also have player entities posessing them are in my latest post in the thread someone made about Kris being Chara)
Actually, since that case was jumbled up in many other things, here, have two independent cases. One for Player SOUL ≠Frisk and Chara SOUL ≠Chara
The Player SOUL is not Frisk
First off, choice boxes. We know that choice boxes are, well, how we make choices. The SOUL is what is used to make choices. This is true in Deltarune (Literally true, look at the vent weird route scene in Chapter 4), and it’s also true in Undertale (Mechanics are identical in every tested case, also there’s moving the box in the Sans fight)
So, the SOUL is… whoever is answering the choice prompts. If it’s Frisk, they should always agree with the choices, because the SOUL made the choice. You can’t exactly make a choice and disagree with your own choice that makes zero sense
If it’s not Frisk, there should be tension at least once. We see this with Kris, where they are forced to do what we say, but they don’t always like it, and often try and subvert it by doing it in a way we absolutely didn’t intend them to, and in Chapter 4, they sometimes even interrupt us by force (by yawning or biting themselves)
…The soda in Undyne’s date demonstrates tension. They didn’t look happy when we make them pick that option. So it’s not them making the choices.
Some would argue they flat-out disboey us in the Snowdrake Mother encounter. While I don’t really buy that, and believe Frisk obeyed us but not in the way we intended or the narrator assumed, if this was a genuine case of Frisk disobeying us, that is the strongest proof you could possibly have to demonstrate a distinction between the SOUL (which made the choice, you see it on the menu making that selection) and Frisk.
The SOUL is not Frisk. It’s either us, or piloted by us. This is a Kris situation, not a Link situation.
Chara is possessed too
It is a fact that humans cannot absorb human SOULs. Yet “Chara” can take our SOUL just fine. How does this make any sense whatsoever?
Because it’s not Chara, the human. It’s “CHARA”, the… entity. (This also explains why they so blatantly act like an RPG minmax player, metanarratively that’s what they literally are)
Why do they say destroy the world and move onto the next so casually? Because to them, this is all just a game, and it’s time to move onto the next game. We might not see them as “Chara” anymore since they won’t inhabit that body anymore, but time after time, they will appear.
So, is Chara’s player something else, or are they the SOUL?
Well, they are the same person who piloted Asriel through the SOUL, since they refer to “our plan” in the first person. So the player entity is in fact piloting through the SOUL. (This also implies it was Chara’s player that made the plan with Asriel, not Chara the human. Could explain the massive difference between Chara as friends with Asriel and the Chara who made THAT plan and treated Asriel more as an asset than a friend. It’s literally NOT THE SAME PERSON)
Human Chara is a prankster like Kris, who leaves the lens cap on on purpose and scares Asriel (like Kris with Noelle), but still genuinely cares for their friends
(No Kris is not Chara. They look nothing alike. It’s far more likely they’re the unused human, but they’re probably just nobody we’ve seen)
One last thing…
Flowey took over Undertale’s Twitter in the leadup to the full game’s release. “Won’t you play with me again? =)
He called out beyond the fourth wall into our world, thinking we THE PLAYER are Chara.
He is aware of the player/human distinction. Which is why he’s all the too happy to call us Chara despite us looking absolutely nothing like Chara. Because he knows it’s possible for a player entity to inhabit a different body, and thinks that is what happened (Since we seem to act like “Chara”.)
But this implies he hypothesized Chara was a player entity. And likely assumed only player entity Chara ever did anything, and even started attributing things human Chara did as player entity Chara
(Maybe he’s only partially aware? Like, he doesn’t think the human has any control at all and are just a lifeless vessel, so he concludes the player entity is the only real person?)
I want to personally believe they passed on after the photo shop flowey fight
Like maybe them being in the canisters was trapping them and they just kind of went into the after life
Also in pacifist route, I don't think the souls came back in their bodies, I mean, regardless of how much time passed, those bodies should have rotted away by then, maybe they just destroyed the bodies or something?
I could also believe Frisk took the souls with them
(I'm not the first person to necropost on this thread)
If they returned to their bodies then clover would come back to life yay :D