The Demiurge Theory Discussion + Extras (super-spoilers)

Deltarune Discussion
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[Original Name of the Discussion: "some deltarune speculations that I will not elaborate on in full".]

Greetings. Since I am a bad writer, and do not have time for sperg-outs, I will tell you what I believe is true to the DELTARUNE.

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Dess is the original Second Hero, unfortunately trapped within the Keroma (Hell?) with the Yaldabaoth.

The Face is the Roaring Knight. Just because there are no other proper candidates for C1 and C2 Dark Fountain Openers.

Furthermore, the Face is the singer of Don't Forget and Raise Up Your Bat. This explains why the Promise is "in our hearts": it is an unbreakable vow made by both the Face and Kris.

On the Weird Route, Kris is working with us until we freeze Berdly.

Like in C2, we will fight an angelic figure as a secret boss in C5. I expect this man to be very important to the plot and lore of the DELTARUNE. [Thunder/Light] maybe?

The SOUL in the prompt is always closer to the choice that Kris wants to do.

Noelle doesn't have ThornRing equipped at the end of C4. But it is not needed anyway, as she will SMILE in C5.

Therefore, the fight against C5 secret boss won't have an annoyance of Noelle always being stuck at 55 hp. Otherwise, it will be impossible to beat him.

I believe that Forgotten Man is the Demiurge with a Scythe, and the Pleroma is either Gaster or C5 secret boss. The Demiurge stole the Divine Essence from the Pleroma (DETERMINATION), creating the Tree of LOVE.

The Face is the Prince of Hell, a descendant of the Demiurge who seeks to destroy the Tree of LOVE.

Destruction of the Tree of LOVE is the ultimate goal of the DELTARUNE. It could be the "One Ending" that Toby told us about. Weird Route is only a Detour.

Dante's Inferno has something to do with the DELTARUNE.

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What the fuck is that

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What do these words mean

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Those are all Gnosticism things

You’re just hammering in the point that you know nothing about Gnosticism by asking about all of them

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Just Google it probably

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You mean DEVICE_FRIEND? Why? How is that creature simultaneously the Knight when it seems to also be a cat-like entity?

Why are you using FRIEND to explain so much, and what’s with the bat references? Is FRIEND singing to Dess?

What was their goal?

So the forgotten man is the villain of the entire game? Why is he so hidden then, and seemingly powerless as well, and why does he behave so kindly? If getting the eggs entails helping the demiurge and seemingly going against Gaster, is it the true evil route? Why doesn’t the forgotten man appear on the Chapter 2 weird route?

Overall, I think your theories are actually very fresh and interesting, but I see some things that definitely don’t make sense to me about them that don’t leave me convinced.

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It is a long shot though

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I just remembered the title says you won’t elaborate so maybe I shouldn’t be asking questions actually

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Oh, and one more thing:

DELTARUNE is a video game, as if Gaster designed it and made the prophecy. Ralsei was created as a tutorial NPC who will guide the heroes, and, he is our humble servant in a way. "HERO_SCARF will protect HERO_SWORD at all costs." No Asriel dust or psyche projection going on here.

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Making your childhood friend stronger sounds cool isn't it? And if the SOUL doesn't lie, it would mean that "Get it" and "Noelle will ride with me" choices were given to us by Kris.

There are many weird connections between them, for example they're both watery and crucified (in pain), even use the same laugh

My first clue was the fact that cats having snakes as their tail is a theme in the DELTARUNE. "Cat's tail is just a snake in disguise" after all. The Demiurge depicted exactly as that: lion (cat) with the snake as a tail. This means that Gnosticism is relevant to the DELTARUNE. The Face is either the Demiurge himself, or is closely tied to him. Since it is marked as an ally, it is the second. And if it's an ally of Gaster/Pleroma, it means... that it betrayed it's own father/ancestor?

Oh and Susie will be the one to destroy the Tree of LOVE. She is tied to the Face, and wields an Axe of Justice, so... The Face is actually a good guy after all?

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How is FRIEND crucified? And I just really don’t get why Toby would make two designs for the same character that look absolutely different, not even having the same shape or size, and kinda create a false sense of mystery and possible connections around the Knight when their true identity isn’t really an established character

Also, I appreciate you elaborating on the stuff about the demiurge forgotten man, but I still have pretty much the same problems with it I did before. Also, just to get this out of the way, I do know about the connections between FRIEND and the forgotten man in the Spamton Sweepstakes, since that’s probably important to your theory.

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"The Pain Itself" is a theme in the DELTARUNE, and crucifixtion is a painful death. Roaring Knight has holes in it's hands, and the Face is laughing from pain. No they both laugh. I do not know who else could be the Knight really, it cannot be a (normal) lightner because of the watery form, Dess is trapped in the Keroma, and I doubt that Asriel would use fire and (cold)water attacks at the same time. Also the Knight mirrors the Player: dodges like a Soul, wields a knife and acts like Kris. The Face in C3 is shown to us as a severed hand, which is exactly what the Soul becomes in the Gingerbread House on the normal route. [Mouse/Hand] could be a thing, you know

Tree of LOVE seems to be a reference to Genesis, "The Forbidden Path began with Ice Magic". LV could be the forbidden fruit of the Tree of LOVE. And we make HER consume it

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Wait what I actually found something??

On deltarune.com/egg webpage there is a Noelle's blogpost in which she speaks about an egg that "made a weird sound", then after interacting with it as a normal pet it "left home due to happiness". She forgot what the name of the egg was.

Do you see it? It left home due to happiness. This egg doesn't want to be happy. It wants to feel unhappy and be in pain.

The Demiurge is a fraud. His eggs do not hold love. They hold LOVE. We have been deceived by him, and now we all collect his eggs.

Now I understand what he meant by "EVERY DAY IS A DAY OF LOVE". There are entities who find joy in pain in the DELTARUNE. Memoryheads, the Face, they all laugh out of joy.

And on the Weird Route, Noelle will turn into something like this. I, and you too, are now curious to see what will happen next. 11 hours or 11 years, we will be waiting.

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Wait till bro finds out it’s a pipis

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[A white egg showed up on my screen, but there was a message with it. "SPECIAL"]

Noelle couldn't throw it away, by the way, just like the BadMemory item from Undertale.

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Oh I’m thinking of the wrong thing lol

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...I legitimenttewnly do not know how to respond to this.

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So is that just a metaphor?
And again, why does Toby really hide the Knight’s identity as the face when the face is not a character we really know anything about? Why not have the Knight come right out with its pink and yellow eyes and such? Why does it have antlers like Carol?

But we don’t “all” do that. The forgotten man is extremely hidden. That’s why I’m saying it’s odd to me if his eggs are really important for the main plot.

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In Gnosticism it is believed that the Demiurge created humanity. This would explain the uncanny power of the Human SOULs, and the source of Kris's dark side which enjoys "exploring".

There is also Echidna character who popped out of nowhere in the DELTARUNE, existing only in DELTARUNE's data. And She is known to be the Mother of all Monsters. Two creators of races, both are hidden and possess snake's tail.

I believe these to be horns, as if antlered horns. Horns symbolize fire, and crucifix-like antlers symbolize ice. Mixing those elements, you get water. Knight's head in it's sobbing animation looks exactly like a drop of water, not even considering how it's horns look akin to Asgore's heart-shaped horns in that very moment. Knight in general looks like a Titan, which are made out of liquid darkness.

I don't really know why the Knight is almost 1:1 to properties of the Face. Like even the colors. Knight uses Red, which in CMYK color model is a mix of Magenta and Yellow; Magenta/Purple separately, which is tied to the Susie D Gaster allegations (and is inversion of green), and the Black, color of Darkness. What is the Face's body is composed of, if not Darkness? Plus the Shadowguys who act like cats and have a white smile similar to Knight's.

But let's forget about all this nonsense, and remember that Knight created Darkner-Gerson in C4 probably on purpose in order to teach Susie, and give her the Axe of Justice. It on it's own means that the Knight is against the prophecy and PROBABLY seeks freedom, too. It is a Shadow Crystal boss, after all. An ally who seems to be a foe.

I wouldn't say that too quickly, we haven't even explored ROOTS location yet, "Lost where the forest would grow" seems to be important to plot of the DELTARUNE, and [Death/Scythe] boss didn't arrive yet. To me all, of this sweepstakes stuff is some kind of teaser to what will happen next, just like what happened with C3. I think that we're getting ahead of ourselves, information about him and the Face will certainly be shown to us in the future Chapters.

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The Face being both Hand and a Cat is a big deal, It may mean that it is both the Puppet and the Puppeter. Which if it is, it raises even more questions...