Revisiting the possible reference of IMAGE FRIEND and KNOWN QUANTITY in the Flowery fight and if it can be included

Wiki Discussion
1

For context, we had this on FRIEND for a long period of time:

During the final battle with Flowery, 6 pairs of words are encountered: KNIFE/BOOK, AQUA/SETH, DARK/LIGHT, DREAM/TRUTH, IMAGE/KNOWN, and QUANTITY/FRIEND. The latter two pairs can be swapped to form the pairs IMAGE/FRIEND and KNOWN/QUANTITY; IMAGE/FRIEND may possibly be a reference to the filename IMAGE_FRIEND, which is used for FRIEND's sprites elsewhere in the game, while the shared association with KNOWN/QUANTITY may possibly be a reference to the placeholder text "Known Quantity [ID]" for recruited enemies with no recruit info.

Refs:

https://code.deltarune.wiki/ch5/gml_object_obj_orangeheart_bullet_word_create_0

https://code.deltarune.wiki/ch5/gml_object_obj_orangeheart_helpful_flower_create_0#L30-36

It was later removed for the following reason: "This is mostly speculation that is irrelevant for both pages. There is no concrete connection, and apparently the words are out of order anyway."

Them not being in order seems incorrect; outside of the single swap which is mentioned in the paragraph, the rest you can see are in pairs. However, it's still right that it is speculation. So, do we think it's strong enough to include?

I feel like, due to the first four sets clearly meaning something (Knife/Book and Aqua/Seth are both... references to Aqua&Seth, Light/Dark is a reference to dark worlds, Dream/Truth is a reference to the whole "dream" motif among the 7 flowers), that the last two pairs meaning something too makes sense. Yet Image/Known and Quantity/Friend is just gibberish, while if you swap that last bit it makes complete perfect sense. Known Quantity especially, imo, makes it more likely, as that's such an obscure phrase.

And if anyone thinks that a FRIEND reference in a boss fight like Flowery is too odd, remember, it was planned for Berdly too, and Battat, a minigame, has FRIEND as well.

So, what do we all think?

2

please tl;dr

my attention span isnt that good

3

It's not easy to TLDR. It's a complicated allusion.

4

“Known Quantity” has approximately no chance of being a coincidence in this case. It's obviously meant to be meaningful.

5

I agree but an admin removed it last time so I don't feel comfortable adding it back without large consensus.

6

@Link What do you think? Can it be added?

As Remex said, "Known Quantity" is a very specific term.

7

There's no way that IMAGE/KNOWN and QUANTITY/FRIEND aren't intentional references to IMAGE_FRIEND and Known Quantity. It's just too specific to be a coincidence.

We don't have to know why the reference is there to know that it is there, and to mention it on the wiki.

8

Bump on this, small consensus does seem to be in favor of reimplementation.

@F-sharp thoughts? As you were the one to remove it originally.

9

If the unused bumper car image_friend reference is shown, and the unused Everyman Titan Spawn is mentioned somewhere, is there a reason to not even briefly mention that Known Quantity is a reference to placeholder text and that IMAGE FRIEND is also possibly alluded to in something that can actually be seen and accessed in a main story fight, especially with the entire framework of Chapter 5 having all of these weird UI-related shenanigans?

Also, like... currently in the allusions section for Seth, THIS currently exists:

  • When Seth attacks, "FAMILY" and "GUY" are among the words that can appear, a reference to Family Guy. These words could also appear in the internet comments during Queen's boss fight.
    • Additionally, "TOP50", "FUNNY", and "MOMENTS" are also words that can appear. When put together, these words could be read as "Top 50 Family Guy Funny Moments" which could be a reference to Family Guy clip compilations.[12]

If the funny family guy reference is going to be highlighted, I don't see why references to the game's code wouldn't also be included or mentioned in some capacity.

10

Bumping this again... never got an admin response but others want this.

11

You can readd what was removed.