Ok so what if the Vessel we make at the beginning of the game is the knight? Like what if it wants revenge on us for discarding it?
Then how would the knight do stuff before we possessed kris
We don’t know if there was a time difference between when we made the Vessel and possessed Kris
Vessel knight is actually one of the oldest knight theories, if you'd believe it! People (including me) were discussing it all the way back in 2018.
the problem of the vessel being the knight is that it has no soul, and without soul It has no determination to create Dark Fountains out of
my personal crackpot theory is that ERAM is the one who's actually the vessel, since the Rabbick in the changing room says that they thought Kris had already left the room, and so far the only one who could be confused with Kris is the vessel
Assuming that no Soul = no Determination in a body is a flawed one, especially with the general belief gonermaker was set up by funny wingdings (people always forget that Alphys made/assembled the DT Extraction machine from blueprints, even if Alphys did all of the other cool as hell experiments and don't let any weird sock muppet tell you otherwise I s2g >_>)
That being said, Eram as Vessel is something I've definitely kicked around too, considering the decision to make Aqua have Eram/John Mantle motifs in design...?
Excess determination in monsters causes them to melt due to a lack of physical matter compared to humans, and that kind of phrasing re: DT as a factor kinda... suffuses the body partially almost?
Goner/Vessel is almost certainly a weird experiment like Flowey Undertale, so it really REALLY doesn't work to assume that the Vessel doesn't have Determination even without a soul, basically.
assuming that no Soul = no volition/will to do things is fundamentally flawed when we're hanging out with televisions and flowers for most of the game, I think, and I also would personally argue that Gonermaker is actually a flashback/something that happened a long time ago potentially...? or at minimum, I think time is far stranger than people are assuming in Deltarune.
Honestly the way time stuff is handled reminds me of Baten Kaitos and the guardian spirit you are playing in that game.
my supposition that the vessel wouldn't be able to create Dark Fountains comes from Queen's explanation; she says that only Lightners are able to open a Dark Fountain, but the vessel is mostly a lifeless creation, and thus arguably not a lightner. The only thing that could make it a lightner (aka human) is the SOUL, which in the hypothetical that the vessel is the Knight, is inside Kris' body
I would contest that! The assumption that they're mostly lifeless does not seem to bear out with the need to specify that how we felt about it would not be heard by it, and the fact there was a mind already there To shape in the creation sequence!
At most, I could see an argument that they are closer to an existence like the flowers, but even that feels a bit shaky to me, personally?
Lil bro just heard of “Vessel Knight Theory”
It’s obviously starwalker
this kris is krissing me off...
I'm the original gonermaker.
Kris, having stuffed the SOUL in the couch cushions, making a Dark Fountain at the end of Ch2:
it was HERO_SWORD
Nope! You can see hero sword die onscreen when susie disconnects the controller. It wasn't hero_sword.
Uuuuhhhhh isn't the Rabbick talking about HERO_SWORD?
You can see hero sword die onscreen when susie disconnects the controller.
Can't be hero sword.
Well I dunno then
Maybe Toby intended for you to leave before Susie disconnects the controller?
I mean if Toby Fox wanted hero_sword to leave, hero_sword would leave with no need for a kill anim on disconnect, I think, and the kill anim would not exist or the dialogue would change. Which it does not. 