What should be used? He/him or they/them, both are listed in infobox but body uses they/them currently. We have one they/them use and one he/him use, both by narration so the weight is the same. And we also have a "boys" use to refer to Cowboy Hat Mike and Cat Mike, the latter of which we know uses he/him.
when multiple pronouns are used, both are listed (which is on the current page)
if they're both used evenly then no need to change it. they/them works fine
I am fully aware. I am talking about the usage in the body, I mention this in the post.
Just seems a bit odd because these guys impersonate Mike, a male he/him character and are described as "boys", so using they/them for one of them just off a single narration text while another narration text, a more recent one at that, uses he/him, doesn't make complete sense to me. Back in CH4 for sure 100% they/them was the right move as we didn't have a he/him, but now we do.
ah I see what you mean now, mb
it probably doesn't matter as long as both are clearly used in-game
recency's never mattered in the past, and this is the same chapter that "boys" was used to refer to six flowers of various genders. real-mike using he/him is a more major point, but changing the page from they/them to he/him would be declaring the single use of he/him as more important than they/them, which, even with real-mike stuff, isn't a call we can make. us writing they/them wasn't just a placeholder until we got he/him, it's what jongler is called 50% of the time.
I would say that using they/them does read as unspecified / specifically those pronouns, so changing to he/him would make sense to remove that ambiguity
not really? shadowguys use both he/him and they/them, but their page body uses only they/them. there's no ambiguity about what pronouns they use there because you can just check the infobox
That is probably done because they are a recurring enemy and he/him is used to only refer to a specific character that is one of those enemies. I'd still use he/him since well it's shadowGUY and formerly in development shadowMAN, but for the unbiased wiki I think they/them is a good choice and it isn't the same situation as with cowboy hat mike.
then probably just which is most used in that case
that is not true. you can read the flavor text and pronouns citations on their page; source: i wrote it. they/them is used to refer to single shadowguys in battle the same way she/her is for single hathys and it/its is for single biblioxes. shadowguys use both they/them and he/him, but more often they/them.
I think you are misunderstanding me. Looking at the page, the he/him Shadowguy is for an INDIVIDUAL singular instance of "Shadowguy", while they/them is used for MULTIPLE individual shadowguys. So there is clearly a valid reason to use they/them here despite the he/him usage, as one could argue that he/him was specifically the pronouns for just that one shadowguy and not all of them. This is not the case for Cowboy Hat Mike as that is not a recurring enemy type but rather a singular individual.
I think that since he's a Zapper he's male
But both pronouns are just fine
ah yeah i get what you're saying now mb. i wouldn't believe that hypothetical argument that he/him was for that specific shadowguy (hathy's and bibliox's multiple pronouns aren't like that) but i see what you're saying.
still, cowboy hat mike uses both they/them and he/him, and it isn't our call to say which one is more valid. both are just fine.
Honestly, with enemies like Hathy and Bibliox, I think they should use gendered pronouns in the body. it/its and they/them can be used for anyone of any gender, and if an enemy is consistently gendered using the gendered pronouns, it makes sense. Especially since we aren't even consistent; Shearys are she/her-ed throughout because they are given that pronoun in Chapter 5 for multiple of them and not just a single NPC instance.
I'll probably make a post on this for consensus.
i think flat out the simplest way to decide what pronouns to use in the body of a page is whatever pronouns an enemy is called the most. this might mean changing some pages (i think pippins use he/him more, but are currently called it/its; hathy's usage is about evenly split so someone would have to count) but it's the most clear way. i definitely don't think we should default to gendered and only use neutral if a character is exclusively neutral. gender-neutral pronouns are just as valid as he/him and she/her, we should not be treating them differently.
and not really the point but
it/its can absolutely not be used for anyone of any gender
In the world of DELTARUNE, where Darkners are objects, especially yes. In a traditional real life situation less so, but this is a video game we're talking about. It's common place in the video game space to use it/its for "monster" enemy characters even if they also have a gender, especially in narration text. Also DELTARUNE itself repeatedly uses it/its for literally every enemy via the failed SPARE text, even explicitly gendered ones, so I think Toby Fox thinks the same.