On Dess being the Knight and parallels to Susie: Rebels of fate

Deltarune Discussion
, ,
1

I'm fairly certain on my opinion of Dess being the Knight, but I haven't been able to put my thoughts together on it for a while now. But recently, I questioned myself on why exactly I believe that and found some rather interesting parallels between Susie and the Knight should they end up being Dess.

Considering Toby's latest newsletter indicates that he's most likely done giving out clues and is going to start wrapping things up while also being inspired by his take on theorizing in general, I feel I should finalise my thoughts on it before it's all set in stone and the mystery is gone.

:knight:

Kris has a very emotional response to fighting the Knight for the first time. It's very clear that they immediately recognise who they are and beyond any superficial reason, REALLY don't want to fight them. For a while, I thought that they were throwing the fight, but ever since finding out that Kris' attack increases dramatically when their friends are down, that opinion changed.

Why would Kris, who hypothetically is attempting to let the Knight win fight harder when they're in a disadvantageous position? Wouldn't it make sense to throw harder in order to get the fight over with? Furthermore, why are they fighting harder in the first place? It's almost as if they want to resist, to fight the Knight for real but are held back by their feelings. Their friends going down is the push that they need.

And the only strong feeling I can think of that prevents you from doing something even if you want to do it...is fear.

:kris:

Who is Dess to Kris? We don't know a lot about their relationship, but we do have some clues. Dess has a whiffle bat in her room. From what we can infer of Kris' feelings on it, they've been smacked over the head with it a few times, possibly drive by style. Now, from what we know of Kris, they're a fan of a little tough love, their feelings for Susie are indicative of this. And from how Kris grieved the loss of a keepsake of hers, we can safely say that no matter what, Kris definitely misses Dess.

Perhaps half of the reason they were drawn to Susie in the first place is because she reminds them of her - a rebellious punk spirit that's bold enough to strike out against what they deem to be 'the oppressor', staunch followers of their convictions.

And perhaps Dess also had a dark side. Maybe she'd go too far sometimes and get angry easily. Even though she meant well deep down, the tendency to lash out and rebel could easily be pushed in another direction. Kris could be afraid of how far she is willing to go, having seen it for themselves, or it could be mixed with a fear of hurting her.

Either way, Kris' feelings for the Knight are clearly very complicated. And ones that they are currently only willing to confront in times of desperation.

:susie:

Let's talk about Susie specifically. She was in a very dark place before the events of Chapter 1. Her home life wasn't great (still isn't) and she was constantly alone. Betrayed, avoided, feared. She had come to accept that the world she lived in was one that hated her guts. That there wasn't a soul out there that would accept her for who she was and even if there was, it was hard for her to believe it'd stick around.

It was only after fate had pushed some friends into her hands that hope took nest in her heart. For the first time, it seemed like she had met others who would accept her and wouldn't give up on her. Because of this, she formed a clear, honest bond with her friends where nothing is hidden. At least, that's how she wants it to be. Whenever it's not, she speaks her mind.

She stands with her friends against the Knight not because of prophecy, but because it's what she wants to do. In fact, she's not even supposed to be here. She stands in abject defiance of fate itself in order to do what is right.

-

So why are these similarities important? It's because we can gather from Susie's clash with the Knight's sword that they are narratively opposed to one another, more than any other member of the party. And if we presume the Knight to be Dess, then it must be because Dess is rebelling in a different way as a dark reflection of Susie: Against the world that she has rejected, that has done her wrong.

In what way that is, I do not yet know. But I feel we are going to learn it soon.

-

I am fully expecting Chapter 6 to be the unveiling of the Knight's identity. Especially if Noelle's going to be involved and - most importantly - present for it. I feel like that is going to be 'the thing' that is going to be confirmed that Toby alluded to, whether we are ready for it or not. It just makes the most sense to me. Why would they get so close to unveiling what happened that day if they weren't going to immediately follow up on it in the next chapter?

Some reluctance may be observed from Susie upon this presumed revelation - it'd be Noelle's sister, after all. But at this point, neither Susie or the Knight can afford to give quarter. They are going to fight to the last over their respective causes. But perhaps Noelle will be the key to staying their hand...either that, or the centre of a most grievous impending tragedy.

Either way, I'm very much looking forward to what comes next.

2

This is, quite literally, a novel way of working an ancient theory.

3

...But where do the Caller accusations take hold? There is evidence that Kris is working with, or for, the KNIGHT. How would these be absolved?

5

Kris is definitely working for Carol, who is presumably working with the Knight. It might not exactly be a 'I work for the boss of my boss' thing, though. For all we know, Kris might not have even met the Knight or knew who they were until Chapter 3. It seems to be a very tenebrous relationship either way, Carol reinforcing that 'they promised' at the end of Chapter 4.

This does not strike me as a relationship built on a mutual goal, otherwise Kris wouldn't require that kind of reinforcement. Kris is doing things that they don't want to do for reasons we don't yet understand.

There are a lot of unknowns here, really. So instead of focusing on that which we don't know for certain, I'm focusing on that which we do. Judging from Toby's words on the newsletter, he's done giving us clues and is going to start giving us answers. So I'd imagine that promise is chief among them.

6

OK, but — where does the SOUL fit in?
The SOUL clearly comes from void origins, which might be somewhat accessible to the KNIGHT, and Kris is shown to need it in order to do something with dark worlds (maybe entering them or something, I don't really know. Maybe the KNIGHT actually wants to create and seal fountains to cause max instability?) despite Kris heavily disliking the SOUL's control. Still, they abide by it in order to achieve some goal which seems intertwined with the KNIGHT's.
Also, while Carol certainly isn't a bystander, I'm not so sure her intentions are nefarious — I think she might be trying to bring Dess back, or something similar anyways.

7

The SOUL was intercepted from it's vessel by an unknown party. We don't have clear evidence of who exactly it was who did it, although judging by Carol's vested interest in 'heart shaped objects' she's definitely a prime suspect. She had the interest since before 'the incident' too, as Noelle mentions Kris playing with one of her heart pillows back when they used to hang out all the time. If her treatment of Noelle is of any indication, she seems to have no problem telling others what they can and can't be, too. A 'deep darkness' resides within the shelter and Carol has been confirmed to go inside, so perhaps access to that allowed her to get to the SOUL.

Also, the Knight is fully capable of bringing the Roaring already and has been for quite some time. They've already proved that they can just make a Titan with very little consequence. If the plan was to just cause the Roaring they could have done that by now. There was also definitely no mention of a Titan appearing that early in the prophecy, we can gleam as such from Ralsei's reaction and how he didn't think they could beat it.

8

OK, but realistically would Carol really be able to get into the Depths and back out without harm, all the while stealing a SOUL from W.D Gaster?

9

Carol is still a Lightner and presumably has her own weapon and magic. You don't need a soul to fight in the Dark World, you just need one if you want to seal a fountain and use ACTs. We can see this in a few boss fights against Lightners like Susie, Berdly and Pink. If she has anything like her daughter's power, I think she'd been able to get by by freezing darkners and Getting Stronger as a result. Not everyone has to play nice like the main party!

Alternatively, she might not even need to if the creatures down there didn't see her as a threat.

10

But, like, W.D Gaster.
He's, like, REALLY powerful.

11

I wouldn't consider W.D Gaster to be the combative type. I'd say he's more content to observe no matter what happens. It's all just data to him.

I doubt Carol even knows who she took it from. Or if she did, she forgot shortly after encountering him, such is the state of his being.

12

not being combative doesn't mean he's not strong,

He runs the experiment so he likely has some measure of control over what happens inside

:friend:

13

Well, he is a pirate. He might've challenged her to steal it or something like that

14

I didn't say that. I just said that he most likely didn't try very hard to re-secure the SOUL, if at all.

Something along the lines of; "Oh, well, this isn't how this experiment was supposed to go but this could definitely be interesting." After all, the guy doesn't seem especially broken up about it in any of his dialogue. In fact, judging from his words in the defeat against the Knight and at the very end of Chapter 4, he seems pretty hyped about it.

15

yeah,

:friend: :+1:

16

Antimemetics, perchance?

17

Considering even electronics are affected by him (If you try to put your name as WDG in the Chapter 3 name entry the device malfunctions and gets a letter wrong) I don't think antimemetics would work.

18

I'm saying he is an antimeme.