I'm not saying Kris is Frisk, I'm saying Kris is Chara.
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Chara takes our soul and calls us partner
Kris hates us
And it's not even Canon that the first human is even named Chara. Their name could be Kris.
Parallel story?
Also Kris and Chara look nothing alike
Yeah. But Kris could be a puberty Chara.
How did Kris lose their cheeks
And how did they turn orange
Also we know what Kris looked like when they were little: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M42Ms_Hbilo (48:58)
Hair style doesnât match
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It's just a silhouette. They're hairstyle can change. Monster kid looks different in Deltarune.
Anyways, I really need to sleep. I can't keep getting up at 2pm... Good night.
That's... just a beta Chara sprite. Even has leftover code to be used in Soulless Pacifist.
The SOUL in Undertale is Frisk's. If they ripped their SOUL out, they would literally die, because they'd be ripping themself out of their own body, due to how human SOULs work. A human's essence is part of their SOUL, demonstrated by the six SOULs in Flowey's fight, and Chara having control over Asriel's body when he absorbed their SOUL.
There's also the important context of, Frisk has no reason to rip their SOUL out. Kris rips the player's SOUL out because it's not their SOUL, and they're being controlled through it. In Undertale, the red SOUL belongs to Frisk, and Frisk isn't being controlled at all. They've demonstrated that they can say no if they don't want to perform an action, and that they're the one controlling the choice prompts, the former in the Snowdrake's Mother fight, and the latter with Mettaton EX in the pacifist epilogue + the soda from Alphys's fridge.
Alright so Iâm making a distinction between Clam Girl and Goner Clam
Clam Girl was talking to Frisk, about Suzy Undertale
Goner Clam was talking to us, about Susie Deltarune
Frisk Undertale obviously doesnât meet up with Susie Deltarune, and Clam Girl calls her Suzy, clearly referring to Suzy Undertale as her neighborâs daughter
We the player are meant to see Goner Clam Girlâs statement as a hint towards Susie Deltarune, but Frisk Undertale didnât just jump realities to become Kris Deltarune, if they did theyâd still call themselves Frisk
Looks more like Kris than Chara though
Maybe Chara was originally supposed to be Kris but that got scrapped after the intro having one stripe instead of two made Chara be the one we name?
The SOUL in Undertale is Frisk's. If they ripped their SOUL out, they would literally die, because they'd be ripping themself out of their own body, due to how human SOULs work. A human's essence is part of their SOUL, demonstrated by the six SOULs in Flowey's fight, and Chara having control over Asriel's body when he absorbed their SOUL.
The same is true in Deltarune, Ralsei makes it clear the SOUL is the culmination of your being, and the books in the library call it a life container and force of will
Itâs also possible to live without a soul, Floweyâs sheer existence proves it
Phone in Chapter 4 says Kris needs the soul
So it seems in both cases you can live without a soul but bad things happen if youâre without one for too long
There's also the important context of, Frisk has no reason to rip their SOUL out. Kris rips the player's SOUL out because it's not their SOUL, and they're being controlled through it.
They ripped it out before we even got here the birdcage was already used before Chapter 1, check the birdcage at the start of Chapter 1
In Undertale, the red SOUL belongs to Frisk, and Frisk isn't being controlled at all.
They are. We can make them point to the soda in Undyneâs date and they just frown
They do what Kris does where they can bias our choices but they still have to do what we say
They've demonstrated that they can say no if they don't want to perform an action, and that they're the one controlling the choice prompts, the former in the Snowdrake's Mother fight,
Could be that what Frisk objected to was the narrator saying tears ran down their face
and the latter with Mettaton EX in the pacifist epilogue + the soda from Alphys's fridge.
The soda actually proves they ARE being controlled or is there some other soda Iâm missing? And what is with with Mettaton EX? Iâll take another look at the epilogue and see if I can find what you mean
It can't be Kris's soul. Souls are the source of will, and will is required to open fountains, so without a soul, Kris would be incapable of opening the TV World Fountain. They removed the red soul before performing an action that requires a soul, which should be pretty clear that not only is the red soul not their soul, but that they still have their original soul.
The reason Kris needs the soul is because it's required to seal Dark Fountains, which Ralsei states to be a unique ability no one else has. Not because they need it to survive.
We also have Gonermaker, outright confirming it doesn't belong to Kris, because it's shown that A) Its existence in Deltarune's world is a direct result of our connection to that world, and B) Gaster intended for it to be in the vessel, Not in Kris, while we were supposed to meet Kris later on.
Flowey is an example of a monster, not a human. He's also the result of intentional scientific intervention, and is also a result of the fact a monster's essence is in their dust, not their SOUL like it is for humans. So, while Flowey is an example of a soulless entity, he relies on completely separate logic that doesn't apply to humans, relying on an experiment that didn't take place in the Deltarune universe, and isn't applicable here.
The crashes are in no way indication of them ripping it out. It calls out a crash, not something being thrown into it. Also impossible, considering the soul didn't even exist in-universe before Chapter 1.
Notice how the first time the red soul is actually thrown in there, the narration suddenly stops talking about the crash, but instead mentions how hard it is to escape, information the soul didn't have before.
Just because they listen doesn't mean they're being controlled, when they demonstrate that they're not. Vocally telling the narrator they aren't listening to player input shows they're not being controlled, because if they were being controlled, they wouldn't be capable of that. Reluctantly asking for soda doesn't imply they're being controlled.
They don't perform the ACT at all, despite it being player input. Kris wouldn't have a choice, because it's player input, our direct control over Kris means they can't vocally refuse like Frisk does, they'd be forced to bite their hand or yawn to interrupt the action instead.
The soda from Alphys's fridge, they refuse to provide a choice prompt at all. Whether LV1 Pacifist or LV20 Genocide, you're not even given the choice to take the soda, because Frisk doesn't want to, so they don't give you the option.
As for Mettaton, True Pacifist epilogue, as I mentioned. Outside Napstablook's house. He asks Frisk for their thoughts on merch ideas, and not only does the player not get a choice prompt, the game directly points it out while Frisk answers the question on their own.
âKRIS LV 1 Body contains a human SOULâ
Thereâs only one SOUL inside them. Now, I was all for our SOUL and Krisâ being distinct before, but after Chapter 4, this no longer makes sense (Kris even did their thing where they pretended to tear our their soul to Noelle long, LONG, ago, implying they always had the idea to do that. This and Kris playing with Tenna and Queen a long time ago also has some implementations for Kris premeditating a whole bunch of the game from long ago, or some other thing, which Iâm actually working on a theory about, itâs pretty big)
But thereâs only one soul involved right now. And if our soul wasnât Krisâ, Kris lost the original soul, because thereâs just one.
Also, Gaster reappearing at the end of Chapter 4, and the Gaster tweets for Chapter 2 and 3+4 donât respond to us being in the wrong vessel. Almost seems like Gaster and Second Voice were working together and we were ALWAYS supposed to be inside Kris. Prophecy even refers to the first hero as cage with human soul and parts, which is KRIS. Itâs also strongly implied based on âtold across time and spaceâ and archives of deltarune.com before Chapter 1âs release (which quotes some of Ralseiâs version of the prophecy in Wingdings) that Gaster made the prophecy. (Told across time and space was said again in Chapter 4 by the Lightners, so itâs not just Ralseiâs version that likely came from Gaster.) So, again, evidence suggests the interruption was planned the whole time. Gasterâs playing both sides (Entry 17 experiments would suggest he made the Grand Fountain)
Flowey is an example of a monster, not a human. He's also the result of intentional scientific intervention, and is also a result of the fact a monster's essence is in their dust, not their SOUL like it is for humans. So, while Flowey is an example of a soulless entity, he relies on completely separate logic that doesn't apply to humans, relying on an experiment that didn't take place in the Deltarune universe, and isn't applicable here.
All the experiment did was put determination on the flower. So determination is all you need. No SOUL. Just determination. Kris and Frisk have plenty of determination. Also, what about CHARA at the end of the Murder Route? They also have no soul. We know this because they no longer have the ability to understand our feelings (âperverted sentimentalityâ) anymore and that they can even take our soul in the first place)
Seems human essence exists as well within the body. Chara would have been reawakened because of us landing on their body
It calls out a crash , not something being thrown into it.
The narrator wouldnât know something was thrown into it. And what else could have caused the crash? Throwing a soul into it as hard as Kris does at the end of Chapter 1 would cause a crash, what else do you think Kris did involving that birdcage? They donât even own a bird!
They don't perform the ACT at all, despite it being player input.
Iâm disputing that. I claim they did laugh as we said but didnât cry because we never told them to cry.
The soda from Alphys's fridge, they refuse to provide a choice prompt at all. Whether LV1 Pacifist or LV20 Genocide, you're not even given the choice to take the soda, because Frisk doesn't want to, so they don't give you the option.
How do we know itâs Frisk responsible for that? In Deltarune weâre not given the option to wash our hands until exactly when Kris wants us to. (And Kris is probably the one who added the âplease donâtâ options in Chapter 4âs weird route) Also what is going on with the blank options in the Weird Route?
The option system is just plain weird
Kris also closes their eyes if we try to enter Asrielâs room in Cuber City, and we donât even have the option to open the door in the church that could have a large person hiding behind it, we can only turn the knob or not turn the knob. That last one Iâd say is an exact parallel to Alphysâ fridge.
As for Mettaton, True Pacifist epilogue, as I mentioned. Outside Napstablook's house. He asks Frisk for their thoughts on merch ideas, and not only does the player not get a choice prompt, the game directly points it out while Frisk answers the question on their own.
Or Mettaton didnât give us a yes or no prompt. That makes more sense with how the narrator said a prompt wasnât given. (Also, come on, I think itâs in character for Mettaton to not even give us a choice with how self-centered he often is) Then just pretended Frisk agreed like the main character on kidâs TV shows do with their fake interactivity
That phrasing doesnât say thereâs only one, just that there is one. There being two doesnât contradict anything. Undertale does something similar on the console ports, it mentions âaâ frog in a crack in a wall, when there are actually two frogs.
If there was only one, Chapter 3 wouldnât be possible, because souls are the source of will, and will is required to open Dark Fountains. Without a soul, Kris canât open a fountain. Kris being soulless is directly incompatible with Chapter 3 happening, according to whatâs currently established ingame.
Kris pretending to rip it out was a prank. That doesnât mean they literally ripped it out before, or even knew it was possible, itâs just a zombie prank intended to scare Noelle.
Gaster literally made us a vessel, told us itâd be our body, then got interrupted. Yes, the first hero was Kris, and the story canât really work without that, but just reading the dialogue makes it clear he didnât intend for the player to possess Kris. He even asks you to name your vessel, and that name doesnât apply to Kris, because they arenât intended to be your vessel during this scene, despite playing that role during the game.
Also⌠Entry Seventeen just shows he opened a fountain. If anything, this being in Undertaleâs code implies it happened in Undertaleâs world, not Deltaruneâs, and isnât the Grand Fountain.
As I said, Flowey is the result of intentional scientific intervention, and itâs also applied to a monster. If Alphys didnât directly inject Determination into the flower, Flowey wouldnât exist.
A monsterâs essence is in their dust, which is how Flowey was capable of being resurrected this way. A humanâs essence is in their SOUL, not their body. Flowey was resurrected soulless because his dust, containing his essence, got stuck to a flower that was later injected with Determination. A human canât be resurrected soulless.
We also know that either A) Determination is exclusively in the SOUL, or B) That Determination canât resurrect things in a humanâs body. We know this because, during the genocide route, the dust of several monsters clings to Friskâs body, meaning their essence should be clinging to Frisk as well, but none of them ever awaken and possess them. Also of note, surely at least some of Asrielâs dust landed on the corpse he was carrying, yet Asriel wasnât resurrected in Charaâs corpse.
And no, Chara isnât soulless. Not being able to understand feelings doesnât mean they canât feel those feelings, not to mention a hypothetical soulless human would still have the ability to feel love, considering the game makes a point to say human SOULs arenât made of it like monster SOULs are, and demonstrates it by having Flowey not regain his love and compassion from human SOULs. Humans are capable of feeling love without a SOUL that contains it, and their SOULs donât contain it.
Charaâs essence canât somehow jump from their buried corpse, through the ground, and attach to Frisk, just because of the playerâs presence. That just wouldnât make sense. What, if one of the fallen children approached the first flower, would they have suddenly been possessed by Asriel? Because thatâs basically what the âChara is soullessâ argument is saying.
Our only instances of possession like this involve direct contact or intentional absorption, Asrielâs essence ended up in the flower because his dust directly clung to it, Chara had control over Asrielâs body because he directly absorbed their SOUL. Thereâs no sign of âEssence can jump to another adjacent beingâ or anything like that. And if it can, that seems like itâd be a lot more relevant than just âThe game never acknowledges the idea a single time, but oh btw Chara did this.â
The narrator recognizes Dess and Asriel, characters we havenât even seen. Iâm fairly certain the narratorâs knowledge isnât limited to what happens on-screen. Not to mention the crash detail itself, we wouldnât know that if the narrator didnât somehow know that. If Kris has ever thrown the SOUL in the cage before, itâd be called out.
As for what else wouldâve caused it? Literally anything that would Actually be a crash. Itâs a wagon, itâs meant for use outside, not as a cage. Couldâve crashed into a tree, or the side of a house, or Asgoreâs flower shop, or the doors to the shelter. Those would be crashes. Throwing something into it wouldnât be a crash.
Also, isnât it convenient that the crash detail suddenly stops being mentioned after the soul is thrown into it?
No, they just don't laugh at all. The second time narration makes it even more explicit that they didn't laugh, instead talking about how it "wasn't funny"
Frisk doesnât like soda. Seems pretty self-explanatory that itâs them. Why would the narrator just refuse to give us that choice prompt?
The blank options, who knows. Best theory Iâve seen is that itâs a prompt for Noelle to respond, since she was addressed as well, but isnât present to say anything.
As for Kris: Both of those options, they do do exactly what we choose. They just do it in a way that prevents the player from learning anything.
Mettaton canât just prevent choice prompts.
Look at the âTurn Mettaton around earlyâ prompt. If Mettaton could just deny choice prompts, this wouldnât exist under any circumstances, because he doesnât want you to turn him around. Of course, even if this was somehow planned, that prompt still wouldnât exist unless it came from Frisk, because it relies on Frisk remembering they have to turn him around.
Thereâs also Torielâs choice prompts for leaving the Ruins. Toriel doesnât want you to leave. If choice prompts were provided by the monsters, the option to leave the Ruins wouldnât exist, because Toriel isnât giving that choice voluntarily. Thereâs also an âIâ from Frisk in the first âleave the ruinsâ prompt.
How did such a small, simple and harmless theory such as "Frisk might be the Knight" turn into this giant arument between GlitchedSnow and FroststormFrenzy? Just asking to clarify something for this guy
ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Itâs the claim about Kris, actually. Deltarune Frisk being the Knight actually might make some sense
We know very little about Frisk Undertale
The one that Kris is Chara?
Yep, that one.
It lead FroststormFrenzy to say Kris is Frisk, and me to say Kris is just Kris (and maybe was what the unused human sprite was supposed to be before it was scrapped)