This topic is about Card Kingdom, not Flower Kingdom. Nevertheless, I will humor you and point out "Flower Kingdom" was used in a tweet by Nelnal, giving it some backing. It is the only source for the only name we have, which is unsatisfying, but it is something.
You give no justification or metric for why Card Kingdom's current name is "nice" or "does the job great". A name cannot be good in the abstract; its quality is measured by how well-suited it is to its purpose. A wiki's purpose is documentation, and a conjectural name that sounds "good" runs the risk of being confused for an official name, making it unsuitable.
Yeah which is why it also would need to be changed until a post showed it actually being canonically used for merch.(Also the mentioning of adding it/it’s to the list is due to dialogue both by and about Chara not to be rude, sorry).
It could still just be about the sublocation, but looking at the text dump results in two more mentions of specifically "Card Castle" for Pippins, so it's likely very intentional.
"This crooked gambler from Card Castle always bets it all!"
"Us from Card Castle fit in fine. Him? He never really belonged."
It's unknown. We only see Pippins in Chapter 1 in Card Castle (location), yes, but that's in the same scene as Rudinn and Hathys. They could be off-screen in Card Castle (location), or be walking around Field or Forest off-screen.
I was going to say Pippins were planned as Card Castle enemies, but that was subconsciously just vibes-based... Toby Fox didn't say where they were initially planned to be fought.
Toby Fox may intend for the Dark World as a whole to be Card Castle; that happened with TV World, after all. It would flow better than Classroom Dark World. The only difference for the wiki here would be that we don't split up TV World into two articles (which I disagree with, but oh well).
Of course, it's not confirmed, just a possible interpretation of the text. We will decide here.
I think this interpretation requires more evidence to be utilized on the wiki. The simplest explanation is that the Pippins are from King's castle; assuming the "Card Castle" in these sentences actually refers to the broader location feels like too much a leap for us to be doing.
King in Chapter 5 may imply the whole land was his kingdom, that's how I interpret this:
"A single scarred king... that rendered the whole kingdom...
Obsolete.
We were banished, relegated to eternal darkness."
Also, before we decide on a rename or keeping Card Kingdom, shouldn't it at least be "the card kingdom" since it's conjecture? That at least makes it more obvious it's not official.
It's still needlessly fancy. "Classroom Dark World" fits the mold we have established with "closet Dark World" and is appropriately curt. If we're moving the article anyways, we might as well commit to doing it well.
As for that King quote, it is still too vague for us to use as the lynchpin of an organizational decision.
Bumping this. Does anyone have any opinions for or against this? I don't want to move it without a solid enough consensus, which cannot exist if people don't voice their opinions.
I'm neutral on this change, but I think if we move Card Kingdom, we'll have to move the other Dark World pages with it.
Card Kingdom -> Classroom Dark World
Dark Sanctuaries -> Church Dark Worlds
Flower Kingdom -> Flower King Dark World
We'll have to consider whether we want to rename TV World to "Dreemurr residence Dark World" if we decide the area named TV World doesn't actually encompass the entire Dark World. This unfortunately means that Cyber World is the only (collective, in the case of Dark/2nd/3rd Sanctuary) Dark World with an official name.
I could go with this. As I mentioned above in the thread, Flower Kingdom does have a source, but I'm okay with "Church Dark Worlds". As for TV World, it really seems like it's the name of both the broader Dark World and the red-carpeted area. ("(Currently under construction!) (Would be done if there were more recruits from TV World!)")
For TV World, Shuttah's dialogue about the couch cliffs kind of implies that they are a separate location from TV World. Personally, I think it would be better to classify the Dark World and the "TV World" area separate things for clarity.
For Dark Sanctuaries, I think it would be a little awkward having a bounch of pages called "X Sanctuary" only for their collective page to be called "church Dark Worlds". Maybe we could just move Dark Sanctuaries to just "sanctuaries"?
For Flower Kingdom, we have an official source for that name, so I don't think there's any reason to move it
Another bump. It would be good if folks specifically mentioned if they're for or against the change. I don't want to have to extrapolate anyone's opinions at risk of misunderstanding what they mean, and an explicit vote would be the best way to gauge public opinion.
I am in favor of moving Card Kingdom to classroom Dark World.
On a side note, is it just me or does it feel like lately wiki discussions aren't really going anywhere? I haven't seen that many discussions recently that resulted in changes or were at least resolved. (Though maybe I'm just projecting since the post I made 2 weeks ago about changing the way the wiki covers Pink hasn't gone anywhere)
Restating what I said in wiki discussion, but I agree with the proposed move to "Closet Dark World" as it helps dispel the unfortunately common notion that "Card Kingdom" is an official name--which is a notion that we may very well have been responsible for. While the footnote explains the source of the name, a majority of people are not likely to read it, and I believe Kocka has expressed disapproval in making banner for this purpose (as suggested in https://undertale.wiki/d/t/8595).
Despite the fact that I like the name Card Kingdom, such an unofficial name should not be on the wiki. Especially since it's title case, making it seem official.
What are your thoughts on "the card kingdom" or something of the sort?
I do agree that the title-case is an issue, but unlike closet Dark World, this Dark World will be mentioned a very large amount of times. And "classroom Dark World" is just not a good-sounding name, I know that was cited as a positive earlier but I disagree. Something that is sentence case but more passable as a name would be preferrable in my opinion, just my take. We do want pages to be nice to read through, so there are better alternatives imo.
Something like "the classroom kingdom, the classroom world, the card world, the card kingdom", etc. Keep it sentence case but don't make it sound bad considering how much it will be used. The most conservative option here would be "the classroom world", considering it is already a "Dark World", if "Kingdom" and "Card" descriptors are not wanted. And this type of naming is already done for Cyber World and TV World officially. No one would think classroom world was official either due to the sentence case. I'd probably expect the same for any other sentence-case title, considering official area/dark worlds are title-cased.
So if I had to make a vote, I'd say yes move from Card Kingdom but a nicer sounding conjectural title would be best, "Dark World" mention sounds bad. I'd assume the most likely one to be accepted would be "the classroom world", with the page title being "Classroom world". Possibly "the classroom kingdom" due to King's line but the former is less flashy. There is also "the card kingdom" or "the card world", but I assume the first is best.