Changes on the way the wiki covers Pink

I believe that the way the wiki currently covers Pink needs improvements because:

  1. It does a poor job at covering the body and ghost individually. (having a page dedicated to the ghost but not the body, often calling ghost or body just "Pink" instead of specifying that it's referring to one of them, etc.)
  2. Covering both the body and the ghost in Pink's page causes her ghost's page to be redundant.

Because of these issues (and some other smaller ones) I thought it would be a good idea to:

  1. Give Pink's body a separate page.
  2. Treat Pink's page as a group page with information that is tied to both her ghost and her body (battle, shop, etc.) while excluding individual information about them (Pink's ghost interactions in Chapter 2, appearances when separate, etc.).

I have created 3 drafts where my proposed changes are applied, you can check them out here:

Thoughts? Should my drafts be moved to article namespace?

EDIT

"Irritable ghost" has been moved to "Pink's ghost", so I removed that point from this post.

I believe that my previous points still stand and that my drafts would be an inprovement over the current pages.

What do you think? I would especially like to hear if you believe my ideas/drafts would be an improvement and whether or not they would benefit from modifications.

Just gonna let you know, the “single choice” option in polls means that people can only choose one, not that you can only have one option. With the way you have it set up, somebody could choose both yes and no. Just a small tip with the software.

Yeah I choose that my mistake

Thanks for pointing it out but I can't change it anymore :P

One thing this does help is the huge gallery on the current Pink page which sucks really bad.

I think we need to get rid of some of these images general. No other page has this many face sprites.

pink does have a lot of gallery images, but I think they could (mostly) be kept as long as they are sorted into the 3 pages

if so, that would be battle stuff (like the sign and the dummies) in the combined page, ghost talk sprites on pink's ghost's page, and body/main talk sprites & light world sprite in pink's body's page

oh nevermind looks like you already did that :|

but yeah having these 3 different pages is a good idea

Big fan of this as I've said for other splittings (e.g. Elnina/Lanino, Sweet Cap'n Cakes). I think Pink suffered from the initial big release rush and got left in the dust.

Just notifying that the Irritable ghost page has been moved to Pink's ghost on the basis of being the official term given in the boss fight, so it's an objective change regardless.

I was going to resign myself to the merging, but the way you put it fills me with hope.

Shouldn't we give the Pink Ghost & Body a specific name?

Like Pink (Battle) or Pink (Normal)

"pink" is a group identity, like "sweet capn cakes" or "mike impersonators".

oh btw, i think the "Speech pattern" thing i added feels unnecessary for the solo pages, because that only applies when both are in harmony

I see it as useful for identification for the character during the time in which they are together as a plural system. She doesn't just...disappear and merge, y'know?

uhhh, isnt that what literally happened?

You misunderstand me. I meant merge in the DID sense, also known as integration. It was an inappropriate usage.

The usage of the coloured text is meant to show that the ghost is still an active, non-merged presence. That is why it is useful to note on the pages.

So this is apparently a community vote according to Kocka so I'll put my elaborate take here on supporting Bowl's proposal so my vote is valid.

I support this for two different reasons. One is organisational, one is from a character perspective.

Organisational

From an organisational standpoint, I generally dislike the "siloing" of pages that describe grouped characters.

This is for several reasons:

  • It is not easy to browse. You need to scroll down to find information on a character amongst others, which is something the search box is meant to do.
  • You often get a piling-up of information (siloing) that is meant for individual characters that clogs up the rest of the page. This worsens the above issue. For example, on Elnina and Lanino's page, you have a whole paragraph and image dedicated to her unused playable state. For a Lanino fan (all 5 of you!), this is annoying and makes it harder to find what you are looking for.

The Mikes and Trashy Trio showcase good page design in this respect: Their boss fights are covered on the group page whilst being a navigation point for the other Mikes. This results in smaller pages that allow a browsing user to focus. Therefore, I would want the Pink pages to go in that direction.

The elimination of collective NPC pages was done for this reason, and the group pages should have received the same treatment.

Characterisation

Pink is not characterised as a single entity at all. Look at the boss fight and you will very quickly see why.

In the rush to get the wiki up to speed on Chapter 5, I think these details were missed. That is ok. So let me explain why Bowl's proposal is better.

Pink's ghost describes herself and her body as "we are Pink". Therefore, you have a collective with two minds. If you permit me to analyse with Dissociative Identity Disorder (and plurality in general) in mind, we can read the Ghost and Body as "alters" within a "system". In simple terms, what you have are two minds, one body. These are two separate characters in the same way Kris and the Soul are. That much is obvious; character-wise these two systems parallel each other.

Likewise, during the fight, Pink's body and ghost are described as fighting each other for control, and are clearly distinguished, even with different text boxes. The coloured text also shows a clear intent on the developer's part to distinguish which characters are speaking, implying you have two characters to analyse and understand.

Therefore, you have two characters in a single unit. Crucially, throughout the chapter, you never see these two fully integrate and merge; they have to compromise instead. What matters for the wiki, then, is that you have two distinct characters who are both shown to exist independently before the boss fight: The body is a figurine in the Light World and seen before the festival, and the ghost exists as early as Chapter 2, even seeing characterisation in having a crush on Asgore.

So from the very beginning, you have two things that would warrant some coverage. Then they receive independent characterisation later: Pink's body becomes a Darkner who wants to date people, develops feelings for Kris, and wants to taste that sweet, sweet, stinky fish. Pink's ghost gets an extremely elaborate showing of anxiety and fear mixed with unabashed feelings, and a heavily implied trans allegory. Hometown NPCs with almost no character have pages, and rightfully so. These deserve their own too, they are no less individuals than a character with a body, much like the SOUL Kris has to lug around. They are a cartoony yet appreciated showing of the daily struggles someone with plurality, gender identity struggles, and so on can experience. That can be covered properly by going over these two sides carefully. Bowl has done that!

You can see the struggle in covering this on Pink's wiki page already. Length aside, you see awkward headings, stilted paragraphs that try to introduce the experience each side experiences, so on, so forth. Sure, this can be formatted better, but the problem with constantly switching between two distinct characters remains and ends up hurting the presentation of a deeply complex and (so very unfortunately) unique character. This is the same problem you see with Elnina and Lanino, because...well, it's the same deal; you have two personalities you want to cover. The only difference is that they're sharing a body.

There is more to this but I am trying to avoid veering firmly into theory territory; I am still showing an interpretation, but I'd say it's strong!

The drafts Bowl has put up are great and she has taken apart the blocks of text extremely well. I see very little reason not to mainspace them. That's my vote.

You mean like how the Undertale Wiki has in-battle sub-pages for some characters?

Yeah

The Deltarune Wiki doesn't really do that. So, for a change like this, there should be a separate discussion about whether or not we should have such sub-pages and for what characters.

Just wanted to notify that I've made an edit to this post based on the recent changes regarding Pink's and Pink's ghost's pages and I would like to hear your thoughts.