Does that mean the plushies plural or the character? I can tell the screenshot is cropped so I'm assuming it's not supposed to be worded this weirdly.
The plushies plural, this is the full email chain.
The instances of they/them are debated, see the earlier posts in the thread
This wiki has no qualms with labeling the Knight as using they/them pronouns, despite the only citation being Chapter 2 Susie, who has never so much as seen nor had a conversation with them. To have that citation and yet dispute Asgore's use of they/them pronouns is silly. Ralsei is referred to as they/them following the title change more often than they are referred to with he/him and the instances where it comes up would not be getting disputed for any other character.
They/them is used for the knight because the knight's identity and gender are unknown. Ralsei's isn't.
I think people genuinely forget that they/them isn't just a gender neutral pronoun, but it's also a gender agnostic pronoun. You can use they/them for literally anyone, and in English it is commonplace to use they/them for someone whose gender you do not know.
The Knight is they/them because the game has not indicated who or what the Knight even is, and thus, they is used.
The wiki doesn't use they/them for Noelle, despite Lancer using it for her in the same manner that Asgore uses it for Ralsei. This has been explained to death at this point.
Ralsei is also NOT referred to as they/them following the title change more than he/him. That's objectively false and one look at the script backs this up very quickly. The they/them in the title is also not even clearly referring to Ralsei, and is debated, but is being allowed on the wiki despite that anyway. All the titles are self referential, but COULD be referring to the characters, so until we had more clarity, it was allowed.
Knight is they/them because the Knight's identity - and gender - are unknown.
Ralsei is he/him (with a debatable instance of they) because his gender is known and is consistent.
There are more they/them references for the Knight; we don't list them because having more than one reference in that article isn't necessary. I think it could be an improvement to change the Knight's they/them citation to one of these, but we don't need more than one.
A few of those they/them references
- Ralsei, first Castle Town cutscene in Chapter 4 (dialogue dump link):
- If the Knight's only goal was to hurt people...
- They would have acted sooner, right?
- Susie, before entering the Dark Sanctuary in Chapter 4 (dialogue dump link):
- That goddamn Knight...
- Making one right where everyone can see...
- Kris. Let's think logically, right...
- There's no way... they can get out of there...
- ... without us seeing them.
- If we just wait here
- ... we'd be able to catch them leaving, right?
- King, Chapter 4 (dialogue dump link):
- WHAT!? YOU met THE KNIGHT!?
- ... Aheh. A rare show of mercy, I suppose.
- With their full strength, you'd be SPLATTERED!! Hahaha!!
- ...
- ... What... were they like?
- Ralsei, Chapter 5 (dialogue dump link):
- The Knight... I thought they only showed up...
- ... alongside the heroes... right?
Not true. Even if Asgore's dialogue counts as one (as previously discussed, it doesn't), there are multiple he/him instances after Dark Vine:
- R-Action narration during the Flowery fight:
- Ralsei gives his all! TP increased!
- Flowery, after three losses to him:
- What a mystery. Kris, you better figure him out.
- 'Cause he doesn't even understand himself...
Also, if you would mind reading the whole thread, me and several other people clearly explain the argument for the usages of they/them not being personal pronouns for Ralsei, due to the co-written Japanese localization not supporting this interpretation of the lines and more recently, the clarifications from Fangamer. I would rather prefer this discussion be put to rest unless new information comes along, even though I personally disagree with they/them being listed as a personal pronoun of Ralsei's at all.
Also, I do agree that the Knight probably isn't using they/them as personal pronouns. For consistency's sake, and to minimize confusion, we should probably either remove they/them and say the Knight's pronouns are unknown, or put a note on the they/them clarifying that the usage of they/them is likely just because the Knight is a person of unknown gender.
Thorns are object-type plants and as such do not have a defined gender yet
Actually Ralsei also uses they/them for the knight when talking about the prophecy. It just shows the earliest use of each.
And the it/it’s is staying because of titan shit.
I wanna say, because I don't see anyone talking about it, asgore too uses they/them on ralsei in the dialogue by the fountain when you choose to ask him about ralsei. I am pretty sure that even if asgore didn't know what ralsei was, tony would not do that by just accident. The whole dialogue (from what I remember) is about asgore saying how similar ralsei looks to Asriel, and how he wishes Ralsei to "figure themselves out". I really think toby is leaning into the shift from her/him to they/them with ralsei, but I dunno
the asgore dialogue has been brought up several times higher up in the thread
This same exact dialog uses he/him in the japanese translation, and uses kono ko instead to establish unfamiliarity, meaning the english use of they/them is to establish unfamiliarity (especially because Ralsei's hiding his face in this scene.) We've been over this countless times.
well how the hell would asgore know ralseis pronouns anyway
also: asgore's transphobic when he speaks japanese theory