# Do you think Toby will ever force us to beat the Knight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Deltarune Discussion\ **Tags:** knight\ **Created:** [August 11, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616 "2025-08-11T17:26:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DracoBaltoy\_II](https://undertale.wiki/d/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ccd318/32.png) [@DracoBaltoy\_II](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/DracoBaltoy_II)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/1 "2025-08-11T17:26:34Z")
_Poll ([view on site](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/1))_ They’re the main antagonist of the game, and it would seem anti climactic if we only ever engage with them in Chapter 3. I do believe that Toby will give them more attacks for novelty’s sake, and to appeal to the older group of fans who’s already beaten the Knight. ---
**Author:** ![DaPixl2000](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/dapixl2000/32/2069_2.png) [@DaPixl2000](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/DaPixl2000)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 9:14pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/2 "2025-08-11T21:14:06Z")
I think instead of the knight being nerfed, I think the player will be a lot more powerful at that point, which will make the mandatory fight easier. ---
**Author:** ![Yup34](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/yup34/32/1946_2.png) [@Yup34](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/Yup34)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 11:46pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/3 "2025-08-11T23:46:51Z")
A scripted death "you're not ready for the main antagonist" fight is usually followed up by the real one. As for difficulty, I'm not sure. Usually it would be nerfed, but I didn't find the Knight that hard to begin with. (ERAM kicked my shins in 10× more) ---
**Author:** ![anon34124402](https://undertale.wiki/d/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@anon34124402](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/anon34124402)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 1:24am UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/4 "2025-08-12T01:24:01Z")
I mean, we never really BEAT it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![WarningNonPotableWater](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/warningnonpotablewater/32/1263_2.png) [@WarningNonPotableWater](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/WarningNonPotableWater)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 8:23pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/5 "2025-08-12T20:23:29Z")
Honestly, not sure if they're really the main antagonist. There could be a twist villain in a later chapter. ---
**Author:** ![JMU11](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/jmu11/32/1730_2.png) [@JMU11](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/JMU11)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 8:26pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/6 "2025-09-11T20:26:48Z")
I think Tobys gonna buff the knight so that when we have to fight them it's still a challenge with the fun gang being much stronger by that point, but maybe not as bad damage wise, more like new tricks that weren't there before. ---
**Author:** ![anon34124402](https://undertale.wiki/d/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@anon34124402](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/anon34124402)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 9:58pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/7 "2025-09-18T21:58:48Z")
_cough cough_ gaster _cough cough_ ---
**Author:** ![WarningNonPotableWater](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/warningnonpotablewater/32/1263_2.png) [@WarningNonPotableWater](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/WarningNonPotableWater)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2025, 12:21am UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/8 "2025-09-19T00:21:27Z")
Gaster has infinite rizz, and I love them for that, so hopefully not. (Assuming they and the Voice are the same character, which is extremely likely but not yet confirmed.) ---
**Author:** ![anon34124402](https://undertale.wiki/d/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@anon34124402](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/anon34124402)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2025, 6:10pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/9 "2025-09-20T18:10:08Z")
Gaster has a literal cult following him. Ther'es no way he isn't malicious ---
**Author:** ![Volnar\_The\_Unforgiving](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/volnar_the_unforgiving/32/850_2.png) [@Volnar\_The\_Unforgiving](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/Volnar_The_Unforgiving)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2025, 3:49pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/10 "2025-09-22T15:49:27Z")
A buffed knight fight being mandatory would be absurd. This would gatekeep the ending of the game from loads of players. Really, even an un-buffed version would do that. That’s not how Toby wants to implement his especially challenging bosses. ---
**Author:** ![Volnar\_The\_Unforgiving](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/volnar_the_unforgiving/32/850_2.png) [@Volnar\_The\_Unforgiving](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/Volnar_The_Unforgiving)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/12 "2025-09-22T16:01:26Z")
What are you talking about? There are no mandatory fights so far in Undertale or Deltarune that are near as hard as the knight. Toby was talking just the other day about how he wants people of various skill levels to be able to beat his games and puts in mechanics to make things much easier when people struggle. How is my argument “invalid”? You just think I’m wrong, but didn’t give counter-evidence. Additionally, if he does add a mechanic to make it easier, wouldn’t that be what you call “holding your hand?” ---
**Author:** ![RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/rykernightshard/32/11503_2.png) [@RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/RykerNightshard)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/13 "2025-09-22T16:03:53Z")
Okay, fair. I'll take that. ---
**Author:** ![RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/rykernightshard/32/11503_2.png) [@RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/RykerNightshard)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2025, 4:04pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/14 "2025-09-22T16:04:10Z")
Bad choice of words on my part ---
**Author:** ![RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/rykernightshard/32/11503_2.png) [@RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/RykerNightshard)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/15 "2025-09-22T16:08:52Z")
Still, though... I can tell that Deltarune will be at least slightly harder than Deltarune (actually, maybe not, considering what Toby said), and there will likely be a weird route fight with an extremely hard super-superboss. Toby has made it clear with Snowgrave NEO that there will be mandatory fights that are difficult, same with Geno in Undertale. My guess is that we will fight a full-power knight on both routes, but it will give us a _ **heavy** _ advantage on normal (again, Asriel fight would be hell without the "it refused" mechanic), meanwhile, weird route will have the fight (or a fight with someone else) with no advantages. ---
**Author:** ![Volnar\_The\_Unforgiving](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/volnar_the_unforgiving/32/850_2.png) [@Volnar\_The\_Unforgiving](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/Volnar_The_Unforgiving)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/16 "2025-09-23T18:27:32Z")
That’s a good prediction. I agree that the weird route is clearly analogous to genocide, and I’m interested to see what battle it culminates in. ---
**Author:** ![RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/rykernightshard/32/11503_2.png) [@RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/RykerNightshard)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 1:16pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/17 "2025-09-24T13:16:26Z")
Yes, my point stands... in the weird route. _ **THAT'S** _ where we won't have hand holding. Actually... Deltarune Might be _easier_ than Undertale. Undertale has the LOVE system, so if you get stuck on Undyne or Asgore at LOVE 1, you can grind to LOVE 3 or 5 or 7 by going back... just don't kill too much. Actually, Omega Flowey might invalidate that... He's just as powerful on all LOVE. ---
**Author:** ![DracoBaltoy\_II](https://undertale.wiki/d/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ccd318/32.png) [@DracoBaltoy\_II](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/DracoBaltoy_II)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 4:31pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/18 "2025-09-24T16:31:43Z")
There is an argument to be made for Sans. ---
**Author:** ![RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/rykernightshard/32/11503_2.png) [@RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/RykerNightshard)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/19 "2025-09-24T16:45:54Z")
Assuming he's from Deltarune, he might not give us the same judgement that he does in Undertale, as he hasn't had the tragedy of leaving behind his universe. Assuming their two different entities, though, he could be argued, but I think Tricky Tony will pull a trademark Tony Trick, and give us a different judge. ---
**Author:** ![RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/rykernightshard/32/11503_2.png) [@RykerNightshard](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/RykerNightshard)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/20 "2025-09-24T16:48:42Z")
He might not even judge us at all, and, assuming WR follows the prophecy, we might be rewarded for it... something to think about. ---
**Author:** ![JACKBLACKOLANTERN](https://undertale.wiki/d/user_avatar/undertale.wiki/jackblackolantern/32/21057_2.png) [@JACKBLACKOLANTERN](https://undertale.wiki/d/u/JACKBLACKOLANTERN)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2025, 4:52am UTC](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616/21 "2025-09-25T04:52:32Z")
> God I hope tricky tobacco Tobias foxington doesn't pull a twist villain on us! -All the players, while gaster is laughing with dess in the bunker [Next page](https://undertale.wiki/d/t/do-you-think-toby-will-ever-force-us-to-beat-the-knight/1616.md?page=2)